Talk:First Bulgarian Empire

Problem with the map of the First Bulgarian Empire in 850

Hello there, when you first access the page "First Bulgarian Empire" on wikipedia the map of the First Bulgarian Empire in 850 named "Balkans850.png" with the measures 628 x 517 pixels doesn't include the Torda salt mines as being part of the First Bulgarian Empire but when you click on the map, the First Bulgarian Empire in 850 includes the Torda salt mines (up to Southern and Central Transylvania): File:Balkans850.png

Please solves the issue, thank you in advance. Ninhursag3 (talk) 15:27, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

On 11:06, 26 April 2023 the Hungarian user @OrionNimrod maliciously changed the map saying "there was no Wallachian in 8-900" even if the Hungarian historian István Bóna himself mentioned Vlachs and Slavs being part of the First Bulgarian Empire: https://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/49.html " The Bulgar empire on the Danube had a mixed population that consisted principally of Bulgaro-Turks (whose language began to acquire Slavic characteristics in the 9th {1-269.} century), various Slavic tribes, and the Balkan Latins (Vlachs). One of the fundamental goals of the early Bulgar khanate's empire-building policy was to resettle the various ethnic groups."

Also he mentions Slavic and local Balkan peoples' graves in Southern Transylvania before the arrival of the conquest of Southern and Central Transylvania by the Bulgars in 830: " there is general agreement that in Danubian Bulgaria's 'pagan' cemeteries of the 8th–9th centuries, these graves held the remains of Bulgaro-Turks. To be sure, cemeteries of this type were less numerous than those that cremation and double rites identify with the Slavic and local Balkanic population" in the region of Southern Transylvania in chapter 6 titled "SOUTHERN TRANSYLVANIA UNDER BULGAR RULE" of the book "HISTORY OF TRANSYLVANIA: Volume I. From the Beginnings to 1606" https://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/1.html Ninhursag3 (talk) 15:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Ninhursag3! Maliciously changing? If you see history many users already changed that map with the same reason to restore the original one. This blocked user changed the original map first to write there Wallachia: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Spiridon_Ion_Cepleanu (and his sockpuppet Julieta) That maps depicts around the years 850. Wallachia established 500 years later in 1330, the historiography does not know about any Wallachia in 850, so the maliciously changing as history falsification to put Wallachia state in a map 850. So I restored the original map. Please consult other historians and map makers that no international maps show Wallachia in medieval maps before 1330. Probably they are all malicious....[1][11][12][13] OrionNimrod (talk) 16:15, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't care about other users, they can change this names to Julieta or whatever. I'm a woman, not a "fake internet woman" or a "sock-puppet woman". I am very disappointed about the lack of female users on wikipedia though, that some male users even make fake female sock-puppets accounts. I plan to stay on wikipedia for years to come and to talk cordially to everyone, including you. I won't ever change my IP. I don't want to insult you but what you did was malicious. I never mentioned Wallachia as a state before 1330 (even if the Second Bulgarian Empire or Vlach–Bulgarian Empire/Bulgarian–Wallachian Empire between 11185 and 1422 existed or Great Wallachia between the 12th and 14th century existed) just mentioned what the Hungarian historian István Bóna said:

Vlachs and Slavs being part of the First Bulgarian Empire: https://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/49.html " The Bulgar empire on the Danube had a mixed population that consisted principally of Bulgaro-Turks (whose language began to acquire Slavic characteristics in the 9th {1-269.} century), various Slavic tribes, and the Balkan Latins (Vlachs). One of the fundamental goals of the early Bulgar khanate's empire-building policy was to resettle the various ethnic groups."

Also he mentions Slavic and local Balkan peoples' graves in Southern Transylvania before the arrival of the conquest of Southern and Central Transylvania by the Bulgars in 830: " there is general agreement that in Danubian Bulgaria's 'pagan' cemeteries of the 8th–9th centuries, these graves held the remains of Bulgaro-Turks. To be sure, cemeteries of this type were less numerous than those that cremation and double rites identify with the Slavic and local Balkanic population" in the region of Southern Transylvania in chapter 6 titled "SOUTHERN TRANSYLVANIA UNDER BULGAR RULE" of the book "HISTORY OF TRANSYLVANIA: Volume I. From the Beginnings to 1606" https://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/1.html

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings for saying "malicious". Can we please make peace and try to see eye to eye? I don't think Spiridon Ion Cepleanu would bother to read István Bóna or try to be as cordial as I have been. I put a lot of effort on reading up on these historical aspects from both Romanian and Hungarian perspectives. About the ethnogenesis/origin of Romanians I'm neither pro-Daco-Roman continuity or pro-Balkan immigrationist theory but lean more on the pro-admigration theory. Ninhursag3 (talk) 16:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Anachronism regarding Basil II

In the paragraph dealing with khan Omurtag and his persecution of Christians I have deleted the sentence "Menologion of Basil II, glorifies Basil as a warrior defending Orthodox Christendom against the attacks of the pagan Bulgars". Since Basil II ruled more than a century later than Omurtag, the information seemed irrelevant. If this was a mistake on my part, please make the relevance more clear in the article. Nikolaj1905 (talk) 07:40, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Who "slavisized" the Bulgars? And how so fast?

It's said that the Bulgars after arriving in the Balkans mixed with Slavic and also non-Slavic tribes. As one non-Slavic tribe the Thracians are mentioned. But who were the Slavic tribes? It seems that the arrival of Bulgars from the east and the Slavs from north-eastern parts (round the Ural) in the Balkans happened about the same time. My question is why would a Turkish people accept a new language, new personal and topographic names and the domination of a completely different culture unless they were overpowered and forced by these other peoples the Slavs? And secondly, who were these Slavic tribes? History (and Wikipedia) tells us that Slavic tribes called Serbs and Croats settled on the Balkans during the 7th century AD. How did that assimilation of the Bulgars into the Slavic corpus happen and why did it happen so fast? The same goes for the acceptance of a new language (as already mentioned above). There's no explanation in the article. It just happened. Period. Usually the ethnic and cultural mixing of peoples takes decades and centuries. Here it just happened immediately. Maybe somebody can give some more detailed information here and probably add this to the article to make it more understandable for people outside of that geographical area. Thanks. 2A01:599:32A:5CC:E369:28E3:D1FE:B99A (talk) 07:42, 22 September 2024 (UTC)